Diversity in fiction has been a bit of a conversation piece of late. The fact that we have to talk about it at all isn't ideal. However, by talking about it at least we're working towards a point where one day we don't have to talk about it, and that can only be a good thing.
Liesmith by Alis Franklin is a debut novel set to embrace the concept head on. Out today, it's an urban fantasy that concerns a "queer Loki" and... yeah, that's all I needed to say really. You've all rushed out to buy a copy, haven't you? Don't blame you.
Anyway. I'm humbled to have both the brilliant Alis and her wonderful agent Sara Megibow on the blog tonight, to talk more about the issues surrounding this important and often contentious topic. Specifically, why 'normal' in fiction is anything but, and how we can possibly redefine it...
1. There has been a lot of talk of the need for more diversity in mainstream entertainment, for example with the recent WeNeedDiverseBooks campaign. For the sheltered soul out there, what exactly is this discussion all about?
Liesmith by Alis Franklin is a debut novel set to embrace the concept head on. Out today, it's an urban fantasy that concerns a "queer Loki" and... yeah, that's all I needed to say really. You've all rushed out to buy a copy, haven't you? Don't blame you.
Anyway. I'm humbled to have both the brilliant Alis and her wonderful agent Sara Megibow on the blog tonight, to talk more about the issues surrounding this important and often contentious topic. Specifically, why 'normal' in fiction is anything but, and how we can possibly redefine it...
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(Hydra 2014) |
1. There has been a lot of talk of the need for more diversity in mainstream entertainment, for example with the recent WeNeedDiverseBooks campaign. For the sheltered soul out there, what exactly is this discussion all about?
Alis: Mainstream
entertainment, and culture in general, has a nasty insistence on universalising
a very narrow demographic—white, straight, cis, male, and so on—and assuming
that viewpoint speaks for the entire audience. I think what we’re seeing with
movements like WeNeedDiverseBooks—and similar pushes in comics, video games, adult
fiction, and so on—is that, for the first time, groups of people who feel
excluded from pop culture are able to come together en masse on places like Tumblr and Twitter and realise they’re not alone.
It’s incredibly validating, if you grew up never seeing
yourself reflected anywhere in pop culture, to have other people actually come
along and say, “You’re right, that does
suck, and you do deserve stories both
created by and featuring people who are like you.” And not just to have them,
but to have a multitude of them, presented
front-and-centre in the mainstream, not just one single narrative pushed to the
back in some dusty “special interests” corner.
Sara: I couldn’t
have said it better myself! As a literary agent, one might
consider me to be one of the (many) gatekeepers between art and “mainstream
entertainment” aka “reader.” Gatekeeping is a topic for another time, but
here’s how my role pertains to diversity: I am actively looking for diverse
voices to champion to the publishers. What is this discussion all about? For
me, it’s about bringing international distribution and worldwide publicity to
diverse voices in literature.
I am Diversity, my family is diverse, my friends
are diverse and many of the voices that have touched me over the years are
diverse. So, I’ll do what I can to bring these voices to readers and the
WeNeedDiverseBooks campaign has helped give my vision a platform. I’ve been
Pro-Diverse since before the campaign, but the campaign has helped so much
because of its wonderful, passionate advocates.
2. Liesmith has been pitched as "an exiled Loki, disguised as the CEO of an
Australian tech company, unleashes the Wrath of Asgard by falling in love with
a man in his IT department." Sara, what exactly did
you think when you saw the submission?
Sara: As always, when I read submissions for potential
representation the most important qualification is that the quality of writing
is superior. Alis is a brilliant wordsmith (as you can tell already by reading
her words here) so I knew right away that the quality was there.
My secondary qualification falls under the “can I sell
this?” category. LIESMITH stars non-white queer heroes and that was a bonus to
me. However, it's also urban fantasy and that particular genre has
suffered in the past several years (for debut authors) due to shelving
challenges. I ravenously love books by Chloe Neill, Patricia Briggs and Jocelyn
Drake and I think those established authors do well in bookstores. But, too
many debut authors end up in paranormal romance or spine out in SF/F and I
struggled with that while considering whether or not to offer representation on
LIESMITH. No one wants to debut a book only to be told that Barnes & Noble
didn’t take any copies or that a retailer shelved it weakly. So, my reaction to
this submission was: Brilliant Writing! But…Can I sell it?
As a side note, LIESMITH came to me before
WeNeedDiverseBooks, so the non-white queer elements were personally compelling
to me but didn’t (yet) have the commercial platform that they have now. I
fell in love with the writing and the diversity, but struggled with the genre.
3. Alis, you wrote an article on ‘writing a queer modern
version of the sagas’ which Random House have helpfully put in the back of your
book (it’s a fantastic essay that everyone should read). In it you mention that gay couples (and other minorities) don’t
generally get the fluffy happy ending that others do. In fact, they usually end up dead. Why
do you think this is?
Alis: First of
all, thank you for taking the time to read my rambly endnotes… and thank you to
my publisher for giving me the soapbox to put them in, hah. To answer your
question, this is complicated, so I’m going to give the Extreme Teal Deer
version, stripped down to just the portrayal of queer romance.
Essentially, what I think’s happened is that we’re sitting
in the third phase of a cultural shift. The first phase has been with us for a
long time, culminating in the mid-20th century or so, when
homosexuality was criminalised and pathologised, and depictions of it in media
tended to be associated with either sadistic, sexually rapacious villains or, at
best, “camp gay” figures of ridicule. The second phase started in the late 70s,
as a pushback triggered by things like the Stonewall riots and the gay rights
movement, and focused on reversing historic prejudices.
In film and literature,
this included attempts to humanise queer people by portraying them in a more
sensitive light. Unfortunately, that “sensitive light” often tended to be about
the tragedy of being gay, largely, I think, because it was an easy way of
guilting straight audiences out of
homophobic attitudes. So you end up with films like Philadelphia, which is about a gay man but is really aimed more at
using dead gay bodies to provide Teachable Moments to straights than it is
about providing queer people with actual representation. I think most readers
looking for queer characters in SFF from this era will have stumbled across
Mercedes Lackey’s Last Herald Mage
books, which are sort of the same: the main character is queer and he’s
sympathetic, but a non-trivial chunk of that sympathy is engendered because all
his boyfriends keep dying on him and his queer-coded traits keep him from being
fully accepted by society, no matter how powerful or important he becomes in
other ways.
And, unfortunately, no matter the individual merits of these
works in isolation, there’s a sort of vicious cycle that’s gone on where,
because tragic depictions of queer characters get all the praise and
recognition from the straight mainstream, the Tragic Gay becomes the depiction. Which, yanno. If you
actually are gay, is maybe not necessarily showing you the hero you want to
grow up to be.
I’m simplifying hugely here, of course, and there are whole
books and essays that can and have been written about this subject (and a
bucket load of exceptions to the narrative), but the point is I think we’re
finally at a place where queer audiences are standing up and saying, “Well,
it’s great y’all no longer keep typecasting us as rapacious villains and all…
but can we please stop dying all the time now? And can maybe some of our lovers
survive occasionally?” So while the place we’re at may have been well
intentioned, it’s not the place we need to be. We’ve done the films and books
trying to get straight audiences to chill on the homophobia. Now it’s time for
the films and books (and comics and video games, etc.) that show queer people
for the sake of queer people, instead.
4. Okay, so we can all agree we need more diversity. Is this something writers should now be more aware of when casting their
characters or should everything serve the story first and foremost, and
diversity is something that should just happen naturally? (Could it be that the
lack of diversity in books is a failure of the writing process, or more a lack
of diversity in the writer’s own life experience, or both?)
Sara: I think
poorly-represented diversity is worse than no-diversity. I’ve seen submissions
with criminal misrepresentation of about every kind of human out there and that
turns me off faster than a lightbulb. So, to answer your question, I think
authors should write the books of their hearts and write them authentically. We
don’t need anyone adding in diverse characters trying to earn brownie points
with an agent or publisher. That being said, most authors have diverse
backgrounds – use them! Bring the beautiful color and variety of life to your
stories! No one is being turned away from my slush pile for diversity (please
note, that doesn't mean I can represent everything of diversity – the book
still must be crafted in a superior manner in order to be commercially viable).
I’m actively looking for authors and stories with religious, racial, cultural,
socio-economic diversity and authors/stories involving diversity of ability, age,
sexual orientation and gender. Bring it on!
There are diverse books on the shelf – lack of diversity is
not (in my opinion) a failure of the writing process. What we need is to buy
diverse books, read diverse books and talk about diverse books. Read Malinda Lo
and N.K. Jemisin. Buy their books or rent them from the library, read them and
talk about them. There are two steps to bringing diversity to the forefront –
one is to publish more and two is to buy/read/talk about those that are
already published.
5. Part of the writer’s journey is to get inside
the head of strange characters and understand what makes them tick. We do this a
lot with sci-fi/fantasy, conjuring up elves and aliens and everything in between. So why is it seemingly so hard for writers to
get into the head of someone of the same species, who simply exists on a different part of the sexual spectrum? Are we subconsciously veering away from traditionally taboo subjects?
Alis: I think
most of this is just the self-reaffirming nature of queer erasure and
stereotyping in media in general. Writers, both queer and straight, don’t see
queer characters in the books they read—and genre books are particularly guilty
of this—so it doesn't occur to them to put the same sorts of characters in the
books they write. It’s something that I think is changing, particularly as
queer characters whose sexualities are part
of the story rather than being the
story become more prevalent, and awareness of the issues around erasure get
discussed more widely.
6. How did the NY editors
initially respond to Liesmith? Is
traditional publishing open to diversity in its offerings?
Sara: The NY publishers
responded very favourably! We had multiple offers for publication
and we had those offers very quickly (two weeks if I remember correctly). I can
honestly say, from this experience and hopefully many more, that traditional
publishing is 110% open to diversity in its offerings.
As I said above my biggest hesitation about this book was
that it was urban fantasy. We circumvented that issue by choosing Hydra/Random
House whose publishing strategy is ebook-first (meaning no worries on shelving
issues). Random House gave us a wonderful, non-white hero on the cover (very
representative and accurate…no white-washing here). Our editor, Sarah Peed, has
been an advocate from day one. Now, we’re in the hands of the consumer. We’re
bringing it to the table and gauntlet is thrown…you wanted diversity in SF/F,
well here it is! Happy reading!
7. Alis, what’s been your biggest surprise with the
feedback you’ve received for the book?
Alis: That people
like it, hah!
8. And how has the WeNeedDiverseBooks campaign affected
this debut?
Sara: I’m so
proud of the author community for stepping up last spring to create
WeNeedDiverseBooks. This campaign brings a tremendous platform to the voice of
diversity and it has helped this debut tremendously. If nothing
else, there is a voracious following on WeNeedDiverseBooks and, as an agent, I
can throw my hat in the ring and say “I’m looking for diverse books!” and can
also say, “and here is one now in fact…LIESMITH!” A genuine and heart-felt
thank you to the WeNeedDiverseBooks campaign!
9. Game of Thrones has done a lot of redefining of
how things should work in fiction lately. I’d argue that diversity was one
of them. Are fantasy readers/viewers in particular more open-minded do you
think?
Alis: Honestly, I
think fantasy as a genre has historically been very conservative, whether it’s in its depictions of women (would
you like some rape with your rape before or after you’re sold into marriage?),
people with disabilities (if you didn’t want to be the villain you shouldn’t have
been born with such a ubiquitous marker of Generic Fantasy Evil), people of
colour (evil or non-existent, take your pick!), queer people (a winning
trifecta of evil, non-existent, and/or raped!), trans people (who?), and so on.
When I was a kid my dad read a lot of fantasy—our house was stacked with SFF paperbacks—and I
tried desperately to get into them as well. I think I gave up somewhere around
Generic Patriarchal White Pseudo-Medieval-European Fantasy Land #38, which was
also coincidentally around the time I discovered urban fantasy (mostly thanks
to table top RPGs, rather than novels). UF was such a great relief, in that I
could have all the swords and spells and dragons I was aching for, and could do it without having to slog
through the antiquated reconstructionist cultural baggage that was used to
justify people like me being relegated to, at best, perpetual victims and
background decoration in the lives of men. If the explosion in popularity of UF
and its spinoff genre of paranormal romance—and, tangentially, the rise in
popularity of shōjo anime and manga
in the West—is anything to go by, I wasn’t the only one.
Thankfully, as with everything, full-blown high fantasy is
shifting into something more diverse, with voices like N.K. Jemisin, Saladin
Ahmed, and Kameron Hurley. But there’s still a lot of pushback going on by
conservative cultural elements who consider both the genre to be “theirs,” and
the increase in diversity to be threatening; the 2014 Hugos being a recent
case-in-point.
There’s still a long way to go, in other words. No
pre-emptive back-patting on this one.
10. How can the rest of us better strive to redefine
‘normal’ in fiction?
Alis: Recognise
that “normal” and “diverse” are different words for the same concept, not
opposite ends of some imaginary spectrum!
Sara: By buying, reading and talking about books
with diverse voices (both by diverse authors and about diverse characters).